Curse

Dean Harper · Aug 30, 2007, 01:23 AM // 01:23

Concept:

This concept class can deal in one of two things. It can miss with all of its attacks from afar and gain energy every time they miss and use that energy to sling damaging and hindering hexes at foes. Or, it can increase the chance of hitting with attacks and deal a good amount of damage to foes.

Weapon:

Spiked/Serrated LARGE Chakrams

Yes, i know what your thinking, OH GOD, not a fire based class!! No, its not like that, im just showing you what the weapons would kind of look like, they will come in different skins and such. This was just the best picture showing what I want them to look like. They will be this big, and be thrown, not used up close like an assassin's chakrams.

Colors:

Black/Red

God/Goddess:

Grenth
Balthazar

Base Stats:

Energy: 30
Health: 100
Armor: 70

Emblem:

Weapon Stats:

Piercing/Slashing damage: 12-28
Two-handed
All chakrams have from 5%, 15%, 30%, or a 50% chance of missing when they are used to attack.
(See Fortuity for explanation and a further explanation at the bottom of the page.)

Story:

[coming soon]

Attributes:

Chakram Mastery: For each rank, damage increases with Chakrams, and you have an additional 3% chance per 2 ranks of increasing attack speed on each attack. (the speed would not increase per attack, you would just have a chance of having a fater attack each time you attack) This attribute also increases attack skill effectiveness.

Exposure: No inherent effect. Increases the effectiveness of skills in this line, which include hexes and shouts that decrease the effectivness of foes.

Cloaking: No inherent effect. Increases skills that boost your chance of survival and energy gain.

Fortuity (Primary): For each rank, you have an additional 1% chance of hitting with attacks. For every 3 ranks, you also gain 1 additional energy when you miss with an attack. Also increases skills in the Fortuity line. You can only gain energy 3 times every 15 seconds with this attribute. At rank 0, this attribute gives 2 energy every time you miss.

Sample Skills:

Chakram Mastery:

Spinning Strike Chakram Attack Skill. 5e/6r
If this attack hits, it strikes for +8...22 damage and inflicts deep wound for 8 seconds if target foe is below 50% health.

Double Scissor Elite Chakram Attack Skill. 10e/8r
You throw both of your Chakrams at the same time. If target foe is below 50% health, one of these chakrams misses. If target is below 25% health both of the chakrams miss. If it hits, each chakram does +10...25 damage.

Boon of Blades Enchantment Spell. 10e/1c/30r
For 8...25 seconds, if you are weilding chakrams, your attacks do an additional 4...15 damage. If you come under the effects of a shout or chant, this enchantment ends.

Splicing Throw: Chakram Attack Skill. 10e/8r
You throw both of your chakrams at the same time. Each attack does +5 damage for each hex you currently have active on enemies. If you have no hexes on any foes, one of the attacks causes the target to bleed for 8 seconds, and the other does nothing.

Exposure:

Disgrace: Hex Spell. 10e/1c/30r
For 4...12 seconds, target foe has a 50% chance to miss with attacks. Every time that foe misses, that foe has an additional 1...2% chance of missing.

"You Will Die!": Shout. 15e/45r
Target foe begins bleeding for 8 seconds if that foe's health is above 75%. If that foe's health is below 50%, that foe suffers from a deep wound for 8 seconds.

Deathly Scourge: Elite Hex Spell. 15e/2c/18r
For 6...18 seconds, target foe and all nearby foes are hexed with Deathly Scourge. Every two seconds, each foe hexed loses 1...2 energy. If any of those foes' energy drops below 15%while hexed with Deathly Scourge, this hex ends on all of them and up to 2 of the effected foes take 23...55 damage.

Radioactive Breeze Spell. 10e/2c/8r
If target foe is under the effects of an enchantment, that foe suffers from radiation poisoning for 3...10 seconds. If that foe was under the effects of a condtion as well, up to 2 nearby foes are also effected with radation poisoning.

Cloaking:

Grenth's Veil: Spell. 10e/1c/12r
You are healed for 14...32 health for each hex you have in effect. (Maximum 120 health)

Radiation Sheild: Enchantment Spell. 15e/1c/35r
For 18 seconds, target ally cannot be effected by radiation poisoning. If that foe is under the effects of a condtion when this enchantment is placed, target ally also gains 1...5 energy. (Casting this on yourself does not provide energy boost)

Signet of Allies: Elite Signet. 2c/25r
You gain 5 health for each hex on party members within earshot. If more than two allies are under the effects of a condtion, you lose 10 energy.

Underworld's Blessing: Enchantment Spell. 10e/2c/15r
For 5...22 seconds, target ally gains 10 health every time that ally attacks. If that ally is already under the effects of an enchantment, that foe does +14 damage with their attacks instead.

Fortuity:

Chance of the Vengeful: Stance. 10e/45r
For 5...12 seconds, you have an additional 10% chance of not missing with your attacks.

Chance of the Greedy: Stance. 10e/45r
For 5...12 seconds, you have an additional 10% chance to miss with attacks, and gain an additional 1...2 energy every time you miss with an attack.

Chance of the Hero: Stance 15e/60r
For 5...12 seconds, you have an additional 15% chance of not missing with attacks. If you do miss with an attack while under the effects of this stance, you deal +10 damage with your next attack. (this effect will take effect multiple times throughout the duration of the stance)

Pictures:

[coming soon]

New Stuff:

1) Radiation Poisoning: a new condition that is hard to apply, but makes an enemy have -2 energy degeneration.

2) Serrated Edge: A new weapon mod for a chakram that is applied to the spikes. This weapon mod allows for from 20-50% chance to miss with attacks. This mod is EXTREMELY useful when specializing in either attacks or hexes. If you want a hexing build, you would add an edge closer to 50% so you would get more energy with higher Fortuity, but also having the high chance to miss. If you wanted to base your build on attacks, you would get a lower % of serrated edge, that way, you would have a higher chance to hit, along with a slim chance of getting some energy out of it.

3) Chances: These stances are basically what makes up the Fortuity line, allowing for higher or lower chance of hitting with attacks and giving extra bonuses.

Ok, hopefully this is more interesting than my last class, and i know that the skills are kind of like those of other professions. I am going to change their descriptions with your help! Tell me what the skills should be like and I will implement them!!! Also, if you have any pictures, i would sure like to have them! please leave comments and anything you can think of!

-Dean Harper

[M]agna_[C]arta · Aug 30, 2007, 05:42 AM // 05:42

I'll help you with this^^.
Soon as I finnish with my Minstrel and Psion^^!
I have some ideas which would go nice with that^^!

adam of phyrexia · Aug 30, 2007, 08:05 AM // 08:05

Well to point out the obvious, we alrdy have a prof that can wield chakrams
as weapons the sin,
granted they're not that big but still...

disgrace is horribly overpowered, capable of shutting down any melee fighter for about the entire fight. needs to be considerably shorter and/or have higher cooldown.
shouts that hurt? and not everyone in earshot or at least adjacent foes?

Radiation poisoning??? It isn't really out of touch but it does feel like it is, and what does it do?

deathly scourge is flawed: I mean many classes need like 5 seconds to go under 15 percent energy.

interesting idea though, and I'm saying this cause I'm working on a class that has this at it's core. Nobody else use it! O_O I'm watching all of you!

I really dislike the name, spaeldin, that sounds like some slimy organ in your lower abdomen. Not to bash on your post or anything but it really does.

I do recommend actually finishing something before you post it (how else are we supposed to see if it's any good) and the one idea I like is one I want to finish myself ^^

Hawkeye · Aug 30, 2007, 08:18 AM // 08:18

Not sure if I've understood the concept fully. It's a mid-ranged hexer that deals physical damage?

I'd say maybe, but hexes really belong to the mesmer. To make hexes work, they'd have to be attuned to some particular trait, perhaps your ability to inflict damage to that opponent with the chakrams (and obviously also for other physical inflicters as well).

Radiation poisoning seems too 'high tech.' Radiation technically existed during medieval times, but they never would have called it that, much less understood what it was. Guild wars is sort of centered around 'medieval' technology, so radiation, high-tech gadgets, solar-flares, and spaceships are all out in my opinion.

Perhaps just call it another name. Mind fog or something like that, and make it -2 energy degeneration or else it really does nothing.

Dean Harper · Aug 31, 2007, 12:01 AM // 00:01

I changed some of the stuff you asked me to, and i implemented a new system for teh Fortuity line and the connection with Chakrams.

I have to ask though, why is radiaiton not fitting? I mean, the asura's figured it out (Radiation Field) and GW2 is 250 years in the future from Prophecies, plenty of time to figure it out.

Also, please give ideas on a new name, and i will post this on a different thread! thanks!

[M]agna_[C]arta · Aug 31, 2007, 05:41 AM // 05:41

Please lessen Radiation into -1 Energy Degen.
And please change the name, Radiation Poisoning doesn't sound right.
Why not Radiation, Drain, Leak?
I am not that agreeable with the Chakrams, Why give it a passive chance to miss.
I'd perfer it to be a Fast-Range Weapon. It would be like Ranged Type of Dagger^^.
With no Passive Miss chance.

Chakram
Slashing Damage 15-19(req.9 Chakra Mastery)
DPS 1.33 seconds

People have been thinking that GW has a Timeline which is similar to the Real World.
"Hello, This is Tyria not Earth!"
"Dean you may continue, I'll handle with these guys^^!"
Why can't their be Guns if their are Robots and Machines.
Why can't their be Radiation if their already is Radiation Field.
And they have Portals, do we have Portals no!
They can Teleport people into different places instantly while we can't!

I'll be posting my new Minstrel and Psion soon^^.
You might wanna read it^^.

Just some Ideas I might recommened for you from my "not-yet-posted" Minstrel, Mediator and Psion.

Aura System
-Well for my Minstrel it's called Dances, For my Mediator these are called Mantras and for my Psion these are called Jinxes.
They are like Stances+Mobile Wards which instead supports you these affect Foes and Allies within your Area instead. Buffing Allies or Weakening Foes^^.
Might be nice for Farming.
My Templar have wards too^^!
Example:
Blind's Penance
-Mantra : For 15-25 seconds, Foes within the Area are Blinded for 3-15 seconds whenever they deal 50 or more Damage to you and you're allies.
Unknown Guilt[Elite]
-Jinx Spell : For 7-20 seconds, Foe adjacent to you cast 25% Slower and are easily interupted.
Ladyluck's Kiss
-Dance : While Casting, Adjacent Allies gain 15% chance to Critical and 25% chance to Block Attacks.

Unique Attack Skill
-I have been thinking of Implementing an Attack Skill which causes Hexes or Enchantments.
My Psion, Sage, Cabalist and Minstrel would have these skills too in the future.
Example:
Rulebreaker[Elite]
-Katar Attack : If it its, Deal 10-31 Damage to Target Foe if Target Foe is Casting a Spell, That Foe is Interupted and suffer from Broken Rule ,While under effect that Foe casts 75% Slower.
Abra Kadabra[Elite]
-Attack Spell : Deal 15-27 Damage to Target Foe if that Foe was casting a Hostile or Hex Spell that Spell is casted on that foe instead.
Rhube's Treasury[Elite]
-Lorica Attack : Deal 12-28 Damage to Target Foe, If that Foe is under effects of a Chant, Shout, Echo, Dance, Play or Song that foe is stripped from all of it. Adjacent Allies gain these effects instead

I'll be sending more soon^^!

System_Crush · Aug 31, 2007, 07:59 AM // 07:59

I'm not sure about the radiation poisoning because of 2 things.

1. hand my mesmer another 2 energy degen and you have created a monster, if I find a way to keep it on a foe constantly I'd inflict a constant -5 degen.(I liked it better balance wise when it was -1 degen, just make it last a few seconds longer to balance it)

2. Sure there can be a radiation field, fields are easy, harmful radiation(there's actually 3 types) is either too penetrating to be contained effectively, it shines through house wall like light shines through a glass window. So unless you are carrying a box of foot thick concrete to contain the radiation there is no way to stop the radiation from emitting in a field and harming you and your team as well.
Or the radiation is relatively simple to contain, but not penetrative enough to pass the human skin at a sufficient rate to be effective as a weapon.
(blame the discovery channel and nothing good being on TV)

The pain in the *ss thing about radiation is that it isn't very controllable and aim able, If you've ever been X-rayed the nurce has to stand behind a protective screen or wall because the X-ray can't aim the stuff at the part they want to photograph, it just flies all around.
Just m 2 cents, do whatever you'd like, but to spare your allies, you might want to rename it to distortion(magic disrupting the natural processes in the body) or soul scar/soul bleed, those would only require concentration to keep under control;
I'm not sure about the radiation poisoning because of 2 things.

Quote:

"Hello, This is Tyria not Earth!"

Agreed, that allows for far more interesting cultures and events to exist at the same time.(just look at Prophesies theres 4 different wars going on between 7 different factions, that also live next to each other; that'd never happen on earth)
Still Tyria has to pretty much stick to the laws of physics that lend themselves for games.
Because of that you have to put some realism in regarding the development of technologies we also have on earth, they might look and be used different but will still function in a similar way.
And because they function in a similar way they would also be affected by problems in a similar way.

Not because GW needs to be Uber realistic, but because I refuse to play a game that has logic in the level of TV shows for 6 year olds, such as winx or trolls
*ewww, /me shivers in disgust, /me goes to wash mouth out with soap, /me realizes that makes little sense and washes keyboard instead*

Quote:

Why can't there be Guns if their are Robots and Machines.

Sure there can be gun's and and robots and all kinds of stuff, just not for players that also have access to magic.
Magic and technology are mutually exclusive, technology uses the laws of physics while magic bends and breaks them, hence magic breaks technology if you use it near each other.
A gunner would never be able to team with a elementalist or monk, cause his gun would blow up in his face when he gets healed or a foe near him is hit by the ele.
Additionally if an ele has a flame aura he'd also cause any gunpowder near him to explode, even in a town.
A storm aura should mess with any robots in the vicinity, affecting all batteries and transistors.
I have no problem with there bing tech the GW time line is supposed to be quite unconventional anyway, but they have to be NPC's and enemies or be a 2 faction system that pits one group of tech players on one side against magic on the other, which is not Anet's style to do(they give all players the same choices to make balancing easier(just look at the luxer and kursick skills being the same)).

Sorry for the ranting, it's just the way I feel about it.

[M]agna_[C]arta · Aug 31, 2007, 08:07 AM // 08:07

I am not talking about Eletrical Robots I am talking about Steam Power^^!
Steampunk Rule!
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Steam_punk
Question, What would happen to a gun with not Gunpowder^^.
And you shoot it at somebody^^?

Hawkeye · Aug 31, 2007, 08:08 AM // 08:08

Quote:

People have been thinking that GW has a Timeline which is similar to the Real World.
"Hello, This is Tyria not Earth!"
"Dean you may continue, I'll handle with these guys^^!"
Why can't their be Guns if their are Robots and Machines.
Why can't their be Radiation if their already is Radiation Field.
And they have Portals, do we have Portals no!
They can Teleport people into different places instantly while we can't!

It's also due to 'magic' that they transport, something which is supposed to be in the realm of fantasy, not science fiction. So yes, that means anything in the realm of science fiction is out. Radiation poisoning is included. It's the same reason you don't include guns and spaceships and rockets and sentries. 250 years in the future means the only improvements since GW1 is that they invented toilet paper and binoculars to see opera shows.

Steam power wasn't invented until the 19th century. That's pretty modern. If I'm not mistaken, they had guns by that time as well.

You know it isn't that a lot changed from the years 1000 to 1250. It was still the dark age. I think it is only supposed to be a way for the programmers to start with a 'clean slate' of npcs and history. That's all.

And other than that, 'radiation' seems to me something that spreads like disease.

System_Crush · Aug 31, 2007, 08:48 AM // 08:48

Quote:

Originally Posted by [M]agna_[C]arta

Steampunk Rule!

Very much agreed, steam punk is awsome provided it has the scrappy or the post apocaliptic look and setting.
Form some reason its really rare to find good steam punk movies or series though.

I'd love for some steampunk in GW, but it would only work when Anet makes a magic v.s. technology bit, it would just be wrong if it where otherwise.
And as I said it's not Anet's style to do so, not in GW not in... they made runescape right? From the 4 day experience I had there, the same opps = ballanced approach also applies to it(correct me if I'm wrong)

Quote:

Originally Posted by Hawkeye

You know it isn't that a lot changed from the years 1000 to 1250. It was still the dark age. I think it is only supposed to be a way for the programmers to start with a 'clean slate' of npcs and history. That's all.

Actually if we'd skipped the dark age, in which advancement pretty much stagnated whe'd be that much further with our technology today;
As the white mantle has been p00nzored there'd be no one to enforce religions tradition over progress;
and there are plenty of races or factions that don't have silly knightly ideals such as honor and loyalty(in other words freedom is only for the noble blooded) suppress the common man into servitude.
So GW might be able to skip the dark ages, so they'd jump from 1000 to 1200 + 250 = 1400
in which case they'd be at the start of the colinisation era, discovery of india and trade routes to china... We already did that!

But that might mean we already passed that time with the release of factions, so the time in GW with the discovery of Chanta migth be round 1300 instead.
1300 + 250 = 1550 to our time thats about the time America was discovered, African slaves where shipped to india, ships cannons that work well enough to make galleons useful, and 'Korsairs of the Caribbean'

Thinking about it, Anet might have prepared for a setting like that.
Kourna is left weakened by nightfall; it would not be too hard to raid it for involuntary workforces.
The cannon's where already present here and there.(though having a fire ele on board would still be better than a canon IM(I)O)
And we've had all types of environments except the grassy plains and pine forests of north America.
(though jungles have been a bit skimpish and could use some extra featuring, if you ask me)

I still hold firm that you'd have to separate magic and technology, even in a setting like that, because as technology had improved magic would have improved as well. Neither one willing to make compromises too the other.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Hawkeye

It's also due to 'magic' that they transport,

Indeed, the GWEN portals contain purple crystals, float in the air and have a purple glow; If that isn't magic then I don't know what is.
Portals and doors are a controversial point, because they are an opening enforced with something sturdy such as metal.
That description doesn't really tell a lot bout weather they are magical or technological, too see you'd have to check if they require a relic(storage for magical energy, often crystal or gems) or a mechanical form of energy to open them, or if someone has to push/pull/use magic to open them.

Hawkeye · Aug 31, 2007, 10:09 AM // 10:09

Granted, there have been a lot of changes in 250 years, in any time period. Though technology-wise, all the major changes have been in the last 2 centuries (and even moreso in the last). Guild Wars isn't 18th century, so I think we can safely agree that we're not going to have steam-powered teleportation devices.

And it's true that the White Mantle was wiped out, I think it would be folly to assume that some still do not exist. They might come back as a more twisted version of the White Mantle. Even though they worshiped the mursaat, most of the professions were ementalist, monk, and warrior. Perhaps we'd see them again, only with professions more like necromancer and mesmer, using very dark magic, for the perspective they've been given.

Would be interesting if the mursaat gave them new powers as well. Could be an interesting storyline for GW2.

adam of phyrexia · Aug 31, 2007, 10:39 AM // 10:39

Quote:

Originally Posted by System_Crush

Sure there can be a radiation field, fields are easy, harmful radiation(there's actually 3 types) is either too penetrating to be contained effectively, it shines through house wall like light shines through a glass window. So unless you are carrying a box of foot thick concrete to contain the radiation there is no way to stop the radiation from emitting in a field and harming you and your team as well.
Or the radiation is relatively simple to contain, but not penetrative enough to pass the human skin at a sufficient rate to be effective as a weapon.

Dude, it's frickin magic! we're talking about a game were people have the ability to conjure a big ball of fire from plain air and you start pointing out the problems it would have to work with alpha, beta and gamma radiation!
Hell I could point out the problems with fuel and energy that could emerge from trying to cast flare.

Quote:

Originally Posted by System_Crush

I still hold firm that you'd have to separate magic and technology

What? why? a SWORD is technology, a staff IS technology, a portal no doubt TECHNOLOGY.
Just cause things don't work on electricity or some other 'real' power doesn't mean they aren't functioning tools like a train or gun.
I mean what is a golem other than a robot working on magic energy.
Through that logic, the chance of seeing electricity or steam ever being used in GW are inexistent, unless suddenly the whole population was robbed of magic. If we'ld see a gun in GW it would almost certainly be a laserlike weapon that shoots magic like a soaker for magic, unless the guy who invents guns just happened to be geomancer, who's concept of attacking is limited to throwing rocks at his enemies.

System_Crush · Aug 31, 2007, 12:15 PM // 12:15

Quote:

Originally Posted by adam of phyrexia

What? why? a SWORD is technology, a staff IS technology, a portal no doubt TECHNOLOGY.
Just cause things don't work on electricity or some other 'real' power doesn't mean they aren't functioning tools like a train or gun.
I mean what is a golem other than a robot working on magic energy.

Magic bends and breaks the laws of physics, technology uses them.Now a sword is molecularly and atomically coherent, changing that would break it yes, fortunately you only need to affect that law of nature for teleportation spells and when you do, you usually put what ever it was you teleported in one piece.
Other than simply not falling apart, a sword doesn't require any laws of physics to function, hence it won't break around any magician.
It can even be enchanted as long as not with kinds of material anti cohesion magic.
The same pretty much goes for a staff.

Now a more advanced piece of technology has more things to break about it, hence it relies on more laws of physics.

A gun relies on the oxidation chemical process in the powder, fire magic might increase the rate to oxidation, temperature or speed of gass expansion; either way the gun is likely to over lead and break/blowup.
The firing pin relies on a constant of it's path and the properties of the materials to produce a spark. (lets say its a flintlock; any type of magnetic distortion would hamper the hammer, perhaps enough for it not to produce a spark, changes in the integrity of metal would likely reshape the flint holder likely breaking or dropping the flint, changes in the integrity of ionic bindings(stone) would likely make the flint unable to produce a spark)
If its a fuse gun it would be affected by fire magic, but nothing spectacular.
lastly for the shot to pass through the barrel correctly, there would have to be little effect on the integrity of the metal, so it still fits nicely, and the hot gases in the barrel would have to not be effected to much by an air mage.
So a the proximity of a : fire mage is likely to break the gun when fired, earth mage keeps the gun from firing, air mage makes the gun inaccurate.
Monks might have the slightest effect, though I'll take back the part about the gun exploding when healed.
A assassin has magic to affect metal though, so do rit weapon spells, those would cause the gun to jam.

The more complicated the technology the more it hinges on not being distorted by the passive effects of magic nearby. And on the opposite side, the more someone believes in the laws of physics being stationary, the less the laws of physics will be distorted by anything they do(magic(items) they use are less effective)

Quote:

Originally Posted by adam of phyrexia

If we'ld see a gun in GW it would almost certainly be a laserlike weapon that shoots magic like a soaker for magic

Hell no, that is the 6 year old's logic I was talking about, form is derived from function, so a tech gun looks like a gun because it needs a barrel a grip and a firing pin/fuze.
WFT would a magic gun need a barrel for? Magic is always guided by concentration, it doesn't need a firing pin either, it needs something magically charged to release energy from, a relic.
You probably won't wanna hold the relic in your and as it is releasing dangerous energies, so we put it on the end of a grip of some kind.
Meaning we already have magic guns in GW.

Quote:

Originally Posted by adam of phyrexia

Through that logic, the chance of seeing electricity or steam ever being used in GW are inexistent, unless suddenly the whole population was robbed of magic.

True, did I say anything different then?
That why it's unlikely for Anet to do such a thing.

Quote:

Originally Posted by adam of phyrexia

Dude, it's frickin magic!

Can't argue with that, radiation itself isn't a very technological reliant substance, so magic can create and manipulate it.
Sorry that I offered useless critism, I had a misconception on that they radiate/expose their foes, instead of just conjuring up the radiation inside target foe.

I wouldn't know how they though up making spells, to make a type of light, that makes cells go hay wire. But long as you create the radiation inside the foes your team should be safe from it.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Hawkeye

And other than that, 'radiation' seems to me something that spreads like disease.

Radiation should have a change of causing radiation poisoning on anyone too close, but the condition is radiation poisoning, which is what happens after you cells have been foeked up by radiation, and isn't causing any radiation, its only an effect of it.

Hawkeye · Aug 31, 2007, 12:19 PM // 12:19

Quote:

What? why? a SWORD is technology, a staff IS technology, a portal no doubt TECHNOLOGY.
Just cause things don't work on electricity or some other 'real' power doesn't mean they aren't functioning tools like a train or gun.
I mean what is a golem other than a robot working on magic energy.

True, it is technically technology, yes. But by technology, I think he means anything that wasn't made available to people in medieval times.

A golem could be considered a robot working on magic energy, but that's where the similarities end. The technology is magic-based, so basing a magic spell on a known modern 20th century concept is like having a spell called 'tank' which creates a metallic shell around a warrior and a huge cannon allowing them to siege the enemy.

From what we've seen from ArenaNet, magic follows rules as well. Spells and skills take only the amount of energy appropriate for the extent of effectiveness it provides. That is to say that if you cast a 5 energy spell, it likely won't do as much as a 10 energy spell. The same can be said for the recharge time. Of course, for all practical reasons, ArenaNet did this so that we wouldn't have overpowered skills, but in the Guild Wars universe, this is the reason behind it. We must also appreciate the fact that there aren't engineers building sentries in battles. Most of the fighting is either physical or done by spells or by spirits. Likely in such a world in which magic exists, you wouldn't be studying how to build a sentry turret but rather trying to improve your ritualist abilities to summon a better 'Pain' spirit.

System_Crush · Aug 31, 2007, 01:02 PM // 13:02

Oh yes I forgot the quote the golem bit.
A golem is a collection magically charged items that often aren't even attached to each other, they float or rest in a pattern that is easy to control for the golem's creator, or the golem's core(a type of intelligence or spirit that controls it, if the golem is self working, it then also recharges the magical energy for the golem's parts when they run out)
Unlike a robot they don't move by applying force on the parts, but magic flows through the parts and they come to rest in a new position.
Doing so moves an object without any kinetic force, the object 'wants' to be in a different place; that breaks the laws of physics.
(really looking for a technological counterpart: a golem resembles a digital representation of a person or AI, in which the person or AI provides commands which cause the digital character to preform animations, but that is rather far fetched)

Another good example of how a form and function differ between magic and technology is the fiery dragon sword, it doesn't have a blade of solid matter, but you can still make a artery slash with it for example, because the magic in it allows tat fire to have a physical component as well as it's heat.
Magic items often don't resemble technological ones, who but a magician would think of using a flame to cut someone instead of something that is actually sharp.

adam of phyrexia · Aug 31, 2007, 01:37 PM // 13:37

Quote:

Originally Posted by System_Crush

Other than simply not falling apart, a sword doesn't require any laws of physics to function, hence it won't break around any magician.

There is something very wrong about that reasoning, but I can't put my finger on it
Laws of physics create existence and existence creates the laws of physics and they both come into existence at the same time.

saying 'Other than simply not falling apart, a sword doesn't require any laws of physics to function' is this bizarre, abstract concept that only a human could invent.

Quote:

Originally Posted by System_Crush

Now a more advanced piece of technology has more things to break about it, hence it relies on more laws of physics.

Now that is just plain wrong, along with a most sentences in which you used 'laws of physics'

I don't really understand your ideas about magic or how it distorts the universe but I think you can define using magic as this: The ability to create a reaction without an action.

Quote:

Originally Posted by System_Crush

WFT would a magic gun need a barrel for? Magic is always guided by concentration

That is an assumption about something that is incomprehensible and above all imaginary, and thus not a fact.
If will can guide magic, than surely a magical barrel can do the same, perhaps even better. Now I may no be totally right about my lasergun, considering that the NPC world of guild wars seems to only have a select few that are actually capable of magic (the abundance of inferior melee soldiers) and their powers remain limited (The need to construct siege weapons)

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Originally Posted by System_Crush

Quote:
Originally Posted by adam of phyrexia
Through that logic, the chance of seeing electricity or steam ever being used in GW are inexistent, unless suddenly the whole population was robbed of magic.
True, did I say anything different then?

That was directed at Magna

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Originally Posted by Hawkeye

Radiation is too closely tied to 20th century ideas. It'd have to be a different name.

Oh I totally agree with that, radiation has as much a place in a fantasy game as a redneck in a gaybar.

PS

Quote:

Originally Posted by System_Crush

Radiation should have a change of causing radiation poisoning on anyone too close, but the condition is radiation poisoning, which is what happens after you cells have been foeked up by radiation, and isn't causing any radiation, its only an effect of it.

Just to straighten out any confusion: Radiation poisoning causes your body to erode from the inside out because it tampers with cell devision. It's not the other effect of radiation screwing with your cells known as cancer

System_Crush · Aug 31, 2007, 05:05 PM // 17:05

Quote:

Originally Posted by adam of phyrexia

Just to straighten out any confusion: Radiation poisoning causes your body to erode from the inside out because it tampers with cell devision. It's not the other effect of radiation screwing with your cells known as cancer

Totally wrong!
What radiation does is: It ionizes uncharged materials(non metal non stone), As most of the cells in your body are made up out of carbon bindings this messes them up.

So radiation does damage, invisible to even a electron microscope.
We are exposed to radiation almost constantly in our daily lives.
When exposed radiation molecules in your body ionize.

Ionized molecules can(in like less than 1% of the cases) affect if a cell functions correctly or not, its like having to hit a critical part of the cell, not just a protein covering.
If a cell doesn't function it's no problem, we have plenty of them.

Except when the cell's control for devision has been affected.
99% of those cases it will just break and the cell won't divide any more.
part of the 1% will be come a 'friendly' tumor( commonly known a wart)
another part will become an unfriendly tumor( a cancer)

So of all ionization in cells cancers are less than 0% of the result.
Why? well because radiation has to hit a specific protein in the cell that controls the limit on division, or the gen that is the blueprint for that protein.
Ionization isn't only caused by radiation it can also be caused by
electro magnetic fields(except in the US, according to energy suppliers their entire country is an exception)
and by several poisonous substances, you might ingest somehow.

But because we are not exposed to bursts of radiation, cancers are the only problem our body has a trouble fixing by itself.
So they are the most publically known effect, of cell ionization.

Cancers however take time to grow, the cases that humans where exposed to large doses of radiation show that ionization can have far more direct effects.
As one doctor in one of the cases worded so beautifully "There's nothing I can do, You insides just don't work anymore"
Radiation stops the function of cells, depending on which are a was hit, they can cause blindness, organ failure, breathing problems, brain damage, and muscular degeneration; within hours after exposure, as DNA is also hit, the template of your cells to fix themselves by isn't working either.
Cancers take weeks to kill you, with large radiation exposure more important things to worry about.

Per illustration.
I saw video footage of divers they had sent into the Chernobyl reactor to stop the meltdown, one of them got up to sit on the side of the hospital bed, his legs over the side.. the skin at his knees just fell apart, and the skin of his legs slipped down like over sized socks around his ankles.
Their skin an eyes had been exposed the worst, and almost all of the tissue was just dead cells. Their went blind just a few hours after they got out, and their insides where pretty foeked too.
Doctors told them they had less than 2 weeks to live, they probably would have become more cancer than person if they'd lived, but radiation kills you in plenty other ways than just cancer.

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saying 'Other than simply not falling apart, a sword doesn't require any laws of physics to function' is this bizarre, abstract concept that only a human could invent.

Well it's technically incorrect, the sword would definitely be affected by all kinds of warps, but I don't think many of those will stop you from appleing it to your foes head, hence it won't really stop functioning, as long as it's still a sword.
My point is really a sword is likely to return to it's original state after being affected.

Also when directly being the target of a broken law, the sword is likely to sustain some kind of damage, or effect(the dulled weapon spell for instance, directly affects the material the sword is made of and changes it)

But when not directly targeted the breaking of a certain law will have a minor lasting effect of that law weakening in the entire area. The more and the more powerful the spells cast the more the environment suffers.

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The ability to create a reaction without an action.

That is an excellent way to describe it(remind me to steal it)
A reaction, in physics terms, is the sum of several factors(for example: at room temperature the oxygen in the air does not ignite) magic changes the factors in a small area, causing a reaction to a action that shouldn't have happened.
I reason it takes time for the factors to return to normal afterwards, if a mage is powerful enough, in an area around them the factors will continuously be slightly off normal this makes it easier for the mage to cast his spells.

These lingering effects are what hampers technology, this doesn't mean a gun will always explode in your face, but the greater the effects around it the larger the change of failing spectacularly.

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If will can guide magic, than surely a magical barrel can do the same

The barrel would have the projectile fly perfectly straight, but at soon as it leaves the barrel if falls prey to the problems fo magical projectiles, the laws of physics are distorted or broken for them, hence there is no real reason they should fly straight after leaving the barrel.
Therefor I think a mage guides their projectile by laying a path or 2 points of affected factors to guide the projectile along a path of least resistance.
That would explain why magical lightning doesn't always strike the most logical way to discharge.
But you are right, that is speculation by observation, and can be relayed.

Also, I think we are hijacking the thread, I don't have anything against radiation long as it's emitted from some source created by magic at the target. Which is the only modern thing about this class, to argue more we should get a room, preferably one we can get rooted.

adam of phyrexia · Aug 31, 2007, 07:04 PM // 19:04

Quote:

Originally Posted by System_Crush

to argue more we should get a room, preferably one we can get rooted.

Nah man, I'm cool. I mean I know all philosophical discussions(if this can even be called philosophical) are pointless but debating the interaction between the unnatural and the natural in a virtual world just doesn't deserve a room

Coming back to the actual class, idk, it just has sin written all over it
especially now with fortuity I can't help but think of my sin with his... what were there names? Green chakrams with the same stats as ceremonial daggers. Even the hexes look they could be from deadly arts.

Dean Harper · Aug 31, 2007, 09:15 PM // 21:15

holy $%*^ guys, i just wanted suggestions on my class, not a whole bunch of physics lessons... OK, so what EXACTLY should i do? I know it needs a new name, so give me SUGGESTIONS, dont jsut tell me wat is wrong. The radiation thing i will prolly chance to Magic Block or something like that. Also, i have only seen one comment on the chakram idea, (of course, i didnt read it all), and i need suggestions on how to make it better... and if i get rid of the energy from missing idea, what should my primary attribute be???

adam of phyrexia · Aug 31, 2007, 10:35 PM // 22:35

Well Dean you gotta understand, Its you who's got to actually make this class work, not us
If this class displayed promising elements that needed some balancing or restyling I'ld be happy to help but it just doesn't.
What's this class concept?
A mid-range physical dmgdealer and a hexer on the side.
what novelties, new playstyle does this introduce?
-a standard chance to miss
-a funky new condition called radiation poisoning
-.... that's it right?

Now, maybe my imagination is simply too limited, but I can't come up with a system that utilizes the missing that isn't either just plain stupid or just a new way of doing something done before.
-the chakrams miss --> you gain energy, that looks a lot like a critical hit system with the numbers shifted from dmg to energy.
-the chakrams only hit under certain conditions: that's again like the good bonusdmg system that every physical class has, only this time we go extreme and say no bonus= not less dmg, but no dmg.
-Say chakrams miss= inflict hex or condition or w/e, that's a hard way to do the last mentioned

I say come back with a class that has at very least more to work with.
Then again that comes from the guy who's incapable of making a simple class.
I take little comfort from the fact that my venadra goes unnoticed more due to it's size than it's content, little comfort